Extracts from an interview by Michael Sheridan with Imam Samudra in the visiting room, Nusa Kambangan Prison island, Indonesia, 26 February 2008.
It is followed by a commentary by Arabic scholar Stephen Ulph, a senior fellow at the US Jamestown Foundation and an adviser on jihad ideology to the US and British governments. He calls this a rare first-hand insight into the mind of a leading practitioner of violence.
Imam Samudra is an Islamic militant convicted and sentenced to death for organizing the Bali bombing of October 12, 2002, in which 202 people died.
The dialogue was in English with occasional Bahasa Indonesia and Arabic phrases translated where audible. Imam Samudra refused to use the female translator present, although she wore modest dress and headcovering.
He spoke while cradling his children and surrounded by friends. There is considerable background noise on the recording and some sections are garbled.
Imam Samudra: Before we conduct the interview I’ll ask you first what is the purpose of you coming to me?
Michael Sheridan: The purpose is to find out the latest situation in your case and to report on it to the outside world through the newspaper and the website.
IM: Alright. Use all of my words. Don’t use this as something around the world for the Christian and Zionist army. Alright?
MS: You now have a judicial review of your case. What do you hope will happen?
IM: Before this review and after I only care about almighty Allah.
I am at the mercy of almighty Allah. Secondly, I don’t care. I’m not happy or unhappy. My “crime” from the first beginning of jihad is only to help Muslims around the world. My lawyers say our case is an injustice.
MS: Do you accept that you carried out the action for which you were charged?
IM: You mean in Bali? Actually, people called me the mastermind of the Bali bombing. Maybe right, maybe wrong. Because my only mission is to help the Muslims. And then what happened at Paddy’s bar and Sari Club is, out of my words, an exception, unacceptable.
MS: Your lawyer, Mr Michdan has told us that you did not expect so many people to be killed.
IM: Actually no. Because, before I did the action I already learning explosives inside Afghanistan. For example when I was in Afghanistan I knew basically of two explosives, what is TNT, what is C4 and what is potassium nitrate. As you know, I may be an expert — Potassium chlorate, KCl04, not big as in Bali — explosives not too big. Even one time not too big.
(He means the explosion was much bigger than they expected).
IM: So maybe 50% maybe you and us maybe CIA or KGB or Mossad. Maybe, it is very possible. Everything is possible for us. Okay. You got the point?
(He means somebody else tampered with the bomb: there is no forensic evidence of this)
MS: Do you accept that you helped to make the bomb? Did you help to make the bomb?
IM: No No, no, (shakes head, draws back) I didn’t help to make it and who made the bomb and when I don’t know.
MS: Around the world many people are suffering, Islamic people, but do you accept that this act in Bali also caused suffering to people who did not commit any violence against Muslims and who did not intend to do so?
IM: My object (target) was not Muslims my object was only anti-Muslims especially people from USA, from Australia and member of Nato and elements of what the people call the alliance because they know it’s a Crusader army. Allah says our fight is with the USA and alliance.
This is my action, simply for protection (of Muslims) I found a location. Two months before I came to Bali I did a survey and I was reading up on tourism in Indonesia. At least one month before 12 October (2002) I observed the Zionists (in) that thing I blew (up). I know they are using it and then also I know I can spread this, with Australia, with Aussie, so before the action I already know it was a discretion between Muslims and non-Muslims.
MS: Some Muslims were killed, however.
IM: I don’t know if they are Muslims. Because they are also customers. Muslims in jilbab (Islamic clothing) in Bali? (Unclear).
(According to official figures 38 Indonesian citizens, Muslim and Hindu, died in the blasts. No Israelis were recorded killed)
MS: What was the political effect of the Bali bomb?
IM: Politically? Well politically, before the action Indonesia was still under the control of the USA. Our people know this. But after the action the pressure on the USA was stronger than before. I know the USA and Australia are already pushing SBY (President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono of Indonesia) to execute me, to kill me and my friends. So, basically, it drove back the USA alliance.
MS: You have said you don’t accept the secular law but would you accept Sharia law?
IM: First of all I am Muslim. I am born as Muslim. I live as Muslim. I reject all law except Islam. As we all know the law is not based on Muslim Sharia. If we are tried by Sharia law of course I will go free. In Sharia the court must choose the best scholars but in this case they only chose this one, or this one (he means at random). It’s injustice. You can imagine – the judge from Bali, the prosecutor, all are from Bali.
MS: Would you accept a Sharia punishment?
IM: I’d only accept Sharia law, beyond that I cannot….(trails off)
MS: What would you say to relatives of people who died in the Bali bomb, if you were in this room now with family members who lost people – what would you say to them?
IM: Firstly to Muslim people I would say pardon, but Muslims only. But they must know what is my reason, what is my objective for the action? I did this action just to help them.
MS: For the Muslims?
IM: For the Muslims, Yeah! So I say to them, Allah with them, Allah with us. While the unbelievers – they must be entering into hell. (Recites Arabic verse from the Koran) Allah says to all unbelievers that (this) road will bring you to hell. And they will be the loser. Referring also to your country, the UK, the United Kingdom, your country will lose of course, because Allah says that only Muslims will win, Muslims will be the winners.
MS: If you kill innocent people – who could, after all, have converted to Islam – because they are unbelievers, is it not a bad thing?
IM: I get the point. I know. The question is the objective. One month after 11 September, 2001, Islamic converts from Christian and other religions is greater than 500%. They convert to Islam, huh? 500%. It’s not small. And then after Bali bombing, in Bali, at least 11 people converted to Islam from Hindu and Christian. People ask me why I did this action. I say because is it my creed. People converted to Islam.
MS: Some media reports say Sheikh Osama bin Laden provided money and assistance for the bomb. Is that correct?
IM: It’s not correct. The money was not from Osama it was from other people. This is an important point. Maybe some try to make a link between Al Qaeda and us. Now I don’t know about this. We are not linking, The only link is iman (faith) the only link is aqida (creed) because Osama’s God is Allah and my God is the almighty Allah. His mission is similar to my mission to help Muslims around the world. You get the point? Right.
MS: Have you been treated correctly in this prison?
IM: Usually the people are good. But some of them oppress us. I cannot teach or preach in the mosque. Maybe it is an order from the president (of Indonesia) and from Bush, get the point?
MS: But you are able to see your family at any rate. How often do you see your family?
IM: No I do not want to talk about family. It’s my secret.
MS: Okay. I just want to know do you see them a reasonable amount of time?
IM: I want to answer you like this. I call you to Islam. Because Islam is peace, Islam is peace, Islam means peace and safety. One Muslim to one Muslim is like one body. I call on all people to convert to Islam because tomorrow belongs to Islam. In Iraq for example there is established already an Islamic state of Iraq, it is the sign of Islam winning, God willing.
MS: Are you able to follow the news, read newspapers, see the internet?
IM: Sometimes I get newspapers from them. Internet? (Laughs)
MS: How important is the internet?
IM: The internet is now the most important method of spreading jihad and Islam. The most important.
MS: On the issue of suicide actions and martyrdom operations. Can you tell me anything about the –
IM: Actually the action is not a suicide bomb. No, no, no. The action is a shaheed (martyr) bomb. Suicide is contrary to Islam. Jihad is looking for shaheed, martyrdom, not for suicide. Suicide is forbidden. If a man jumps off a high building it’s suicide. But this is not suicide.
MS: In English you would call it a martyrdom action?
IM: Yes a martyrdom action.
(6/6/2005) Plans have been announced to erect a permanent memorial in St. James Park in London for those who died in the October 12, 2002, bomb blast at a Bali nightspot.
UK eyewitness video
The noise was deafening – like 1,000 fireworks going off at one time 
Hatha Yoga
